Tagged: Lukewarm Media

Lukewarm Media, The developers of Primal Carnage The dinosaur FPS I’ve wrote about have decided to change engine.
Instead of the beautiful Unigine they have moved to the free as beer UDK (Unreal Development Kit).
As UDK doesn’t support GNU/Linux, and the UT3 port failed due to unknown reasons, a GNU/Linux port to Primal Carnage seems unlikely.
Lukewarm Media explain that the engine change was made due to the poor support of it’s developers Unigine Corp, but some people disagree.

Please note that the quotes are in no particular order

Lukewarm Media Announcement (From Mr.Veo ) :
Due to a change in engines, from Unigine to the UDK, Primal Carnage will not be available as a Linux game. This was never the original intention, but it is the one unfortunate side effect in the otherwise good decision to move the game to the UDK. Additional reasons will be provided in the posts below.

The first number of posts in this topic have been pulled from the UDK announcement topic, which had become overwhelmed by the Linux rage/debate. If anyone wishes to discuss the matter further (though there is little point in discussing it) do so here, and not there.

Thank you.

AshtonAndersen From Lukewarm Media wrote :
Making a game is not easy, especially if you have no funding or resources, we tried our very best to work with unigine, however unigine is a un-finished engine and stopped giving us support. We were having a lot of trouble trying to keep our team together as well as recruiting people who would be willing to learn that tool set. We switched to the UDK because it gives this game a greater opportunity and much bigger chance of success and gives us the option to port to psn / xbla and PC. As I have mentioned, we simply were not getting as much support from the linux fanbase to keep the project going on linux.

It was either we switch engines, or primal carnage never gets done. We decided to switch engine.

I’m very sorry but it’s not fair to be mad at us, you can blame unigine for not supporting our project.

But a Unigine Corp employee nicked binstream thinks differently :
Well, that’s something new to know. What about the following help from Unigine side:

* Full license for the engine free of charge
* Promotion of Primal Carnage on Unigine official booth at GDC (however, you claimed somewhere that it was YOUR booth :shock:)
* Tickets to GDC for Primal Carnage team
* Free DirectX 11 hardware for the team
* Industry contacts, including AMD and NVIDIA
* Linux publicity
* Donation for your hosting payments
* Detailed PC build reviews with improvement suggestions
* Direct support from our CTO

If this is called “not giving support” so I’m definitely missing something.

“I have nothing bad to say about Unigine. You guys have been great. it’s just not working out for us at this stage.” (c) Ashton Andersen, Tuesday 24 August 2010.

Since the engine IS finished at this stage, our engine team don’t introduce OilRush-related changes to the codebase at all, they are working on further technology improvement and customer feature requests.

Anyway UDK is a really nice solution, I wish the team good luck with releasing PC in time, you have really talented artists on board.

As Lukewarm Media are not experienced game developers, and most of their work till date were making mods for existing games this engine was “too hard for them”, UDK was built for FPS games, easier to master and free as beer.

Many GNU/Linux users contributed to Primal Carnage and now demanding (and getting) their money back – and rightly so.

rf2 wrote :
I asked [Ashton] personally in May/Early june about Linux support, because I had my doubts.
– We’re doing Linux 100%, [ashton] said.
– Yes it’s under control, [ashton] said.
– Linux is a very important market for us, [ashton] said.
[ashton’s] responses made me donate, because I took your(ashton’s) word for it.

This announcement is basically a big FU and a kick to my face. I have no sympathy for the team, and I hope they utterly fail.

And I still want my money back!

But many Windows users still don’t get why the GNU/Linux users want their money back :
killer-rex :
“god your selfish u know that take away the money from the devs to make the game good job you people are acting childish”

linuxuser also comments :
They were totally cool with accepting donations and advertising Linux support while they knew there would be no Linux version. Thats deceptive to potential donators and customers.
They could have at least said there would be no more Linux version as soon as they decided to switch, but not revealed why at that time. It would have been much more courteous to us Linux users instead of falsely advertising a service they knew they weren’t going to provide

Call it whatever you want, but the people asking for a refund donated specifically because of the Linux version.

The Linux users aren’t the ones to blame if the game doesn’t come out.
What if the roles were reversed and there would be no more Windows version. Don’t tell me you wouldn’t be at least a little bit ticked? Is it okay if they take your money then screw you over?

And yet there are a few GNU/Linux who don’t want to refund their donation
b0uncyfr0 :
I for one donated ONLY because i saw the devs talking about linux support. Now to hear that linux has been tossed out is a big disspoaintment for me. Sure you have your reasons but stringing us along for months with “Something big is coming to the UDK!” which then changes to “Linux is dropped, sorry” is very cruel.

Some of you guys have to understand that some of us donated ONLY because of linux so venting out is with good reason. And i dont want to hear “ok use windwos then”. Well im sorry but i dont use windows and frankly never will.

Im not going to ask for my money back but im not supporting this game anymore. Its not your fault as some of you have said and it certainly isnt my fault so ill leave it at that.

If i were the devs, i would strongly look into getting a linux client from this new engine and delivering something. At the very least, TRY….and give someone back to all the nix community which jumped behind you when this game was announced.

Cybolic was mad that they didn’t check if it was possible to port UDK games to GNU/Linux before changing the engine and didn’t update their front page about the GNU/Linux version and donations :
I can understand if the developers don’t have the experience needed to support Linux or other reasons that ends in a situation where they can’t provide support for Linux – what I can’t understand is that this was apparently never even considered an issue, there was no attempt to try to support Linux themselves, no call for help from the community, not even the courtesy to post the news that Linux is no longer supported, and until today the website wasn’t even updated, still telling people that they could donate and that the game would support Linux.
Even now there is no mention of dropped Linux support on the main page. There’s a big donate button however, and a mention of the Unigine engine supporting Linux on the About page… guess it wouldn’t hurt them if a few more Linux users donated after reading misleading information?

“When exactly did you ask for help? You started by saying that Linux support wouldn’t happen, not that you needed help. As I said earlier, had you simply asked or even explained the situation (even just mentioned it) you would probably have received offers.”

AshtonAndersen From Lukewarm Media replys :
Ok, you made your point we should of been more clear about the linux situation. As it’s something we are still looking into at this time and you’re right, we should of made a proper announcement about it. As of right now we are doing the best we can, we are refunding all linux donators and I have apologized on the teams behalf all ready. I’m not sure what else you expect from us.

You do not need to continue being on these forums or supporting our project anymore as you made it very clear that you want us to fail, since in it seems that if the linux community can’t have this game then no one should. I give my apologies to you again sir and maybe one day UDK will support linux where we will be able to port our game over. Maybe you can help us do some research to find out how.

Danni who uses the unigine engine for his own game wrote an interesting comment that sums it all :
I have dealt with both the primal carnage and unigine teams and after thinking about this for a bit want to weigh in a bit.

Primal Carnage is a small team and relatively inexperienced. This will be their first title. I can’t believe that they were offering the Linux version with anything but the best of faith. I really can’t fathom why Primal Carnage had so much difficulty with support from Unigine I personally have found them one of the easiest companies to get tech support from. However I have noticed that some of the less technical members of my office have found things less easy and I did find them less responsive while they were doing the PS3 port was around the time that Primal Carnage did need help.

Unigine is also a young and small team and relatively inexperienced in their field. The engine itself is great. There are quite a few things that it does better than UDK. However the artist tools aren’t really up to the same standard, some subsystems are a bit buggy, and the render system is quite intricate and takes a bit of work to get your head around. Quite a few of the subsystems that come out of the box in UDK have to be handwritten in Unigine.

In the end I think it comes down to the fact that Primal Carnage don’t have the skillset to make unigine work for them. There are not a lot of people available with Unigine coding skills if they try to get somebody to get somebody into the team with the skills.

As for UDK being better, industry standard etc. I know a lot of programming teams who have used UDK and regretted it. It works well for some projects and not others. I imagine it will be a good fit for this game however.

To those complaining about the Linux users being angry. Do a little experiment for me
. Find a dog, give a bone – then take that bone away.

I’ve emailed the great GNU/Linux porter Ryan Gordon about the UDK and the UT3 issue, unfortunately he had no answers for me

Will it be possible to port other UDK games to GNU/Linux ? if not, why ?
What about the next UDK released (UDK4 for example that is not came out yet) ?

Ryan :
UT3 taught me to never comment on anything that isn’t shipping right now. So, sorry, but I have no information about any possible or impossible UDK port.
The real question is if it would be possible for you to port Primal Carnage to GNU/Linux or it’s hopeless ?
If there is a chance for you (or any other porter) to port a UDK game to Linux then we can still have hope, but if the problem is in the licensing and bureaucracy of the engine itself – then it’s a whole different issue.

Ryan :
I don’t have any answers for any given title, or the UDK itself.
Seriously, I don’t talk about Unreal at all anymore.

Ryan didn’t say a definite “No” at least, so maybe some other game porter (Frank Earl, if you are reading this – please consider the possibility to port this game to our beloved platform) could try and port Primal Carnage to GNU/Linux.
Although UT3 port failed I suspect it wasn’t a technological issue but a license/bureaucracy related (the port was almost finished waiting for it’s release if you recall).

Thanks Christian Dannie Storgaard aka Cybolic for letting me know about this issue.

Primal Carnage
Primal Carnage on LGN Post 1
Primal Carnage on LGN Post 2
Lukewarm Media Thread About GNU/Linux Support For Primal Carnage

A few months ago I’ve posted about Primal Carnage which is an upcoming multiplayer first person shooter where the player takes the role of humans or dinosaurs.
Now Luke Warm Media the developers of Primal Carnage revealed that they are using the cross platform Unigine game engine and made a new website for their game with lots of new information.

Also it has been confirmed that the game (at least at this early stage) runs on 64-bit and on GNU/Linux (PS, Maxz is NOT me )

About Primal Carnage
Combining the fast paced action of an all out multi-player FPS, and the need to accomplish specific objectives by each team member to complete a section of each level, Primal Carnage® will raise the bar for co-op gameplay.
With immersive, high fidelity sound, stunning visual and enviroments, late night pizza will be the call from your team members as you attack the next level. Can you be the top ranking Merc or Jurassic crew in the world?

Human Class Summary:
The mercenaries specialize in working together as a squad and rely heavily on their arsenal and equipment.
There is a system in place called the Nemesis System which will easily inform the player of each class’s own strengths and weaknesses.

Dinosaur Class Summary:
The dinosaurs rely heavily on teamwork and unique activated abilities.
There is a system in place called the Nemesis System which will easily inform the player of each class’s own strengths and weaknesses.

Multiplayer Overview:
Power Grid requires the Mercenary team to activate power nodes across the map until they have powered the radio station on the island. The Dinosaurs’ objective is to stop the mercenaries from accomplishing this at all costs.

Player Count: The maximum number of players per game is 20 (10v10). The minimum players to start a game is 10 (5v5). Assuming someone leaves the game during gameplay the game should automatically even out the teams or should be replaced by an AI player until another player joins.
Time Limit: There is a set time limit during which the mercenary players must capture all the points. Failing to do so will cause the mercenary team to lose.
Sub-Mode A: Time will be added when the mercenary team successfully captures a point.
Sub-Mode B: Time will not be added when the mercenary team successfully captures a point, adding greater pressure to the mercenary team.
Score: Score is determined by how many points the human team captures, and an undetermined system will be in place to allow the dinosaur team to accumulate score points.
Rounds: Each game will have a total of 2 rounds, after each round the players switch teams.

Game-Play Mechanics
Human Team Objectives:
human team must work together as a squad, travelling across a large environment capturing key points. These points are captured when the human players hold the point for a designated amount of time. Capture all the points before the time is up to win the round.
a point is captured, the human players can now re-spawn at the captured location once killed.

Dino Objectives
The dinosaur team must work together to take down the human team. The main objective is to stop the humans from activating the capture points at all costs.

Survival mode Overview:
Players team up to test their skills in an epic battle against AI dinosaurs while defending a moving object (train, boat) and completing objectives together to reach the end, where they will encounter a boss battle and be required to use teamwork to succeed.
Survival Rules

Player Count: The limit is 5 players per team. Difficulty is adjusted for teams starting with less than 5 players.
Time Limit: Survival mode consists of a moving vehicle on a track and final destination. Each map will play until the destination is reached or players have been exterminated. Time will vary based on the amount of time it takes the team to complete objectives at key stopping locations throughout the map.
Score: Score is determined by how long the team survives as well as individual statistics for kills, wounded, and other various competitive statistics.
Rounds: Each round consists of an attempt to survive the longest. After the team completes the map, or is exterminated, the map is over and the next on the server list is activated.

“More game modes, maps, information coming soon and is subject to change during development”


Background Story:
Dinosaurs have been unleashed on an old military-controlled island due to an experiment gone awry. A team of mercenaries have been dispatched to contain the threat.
Game Objective:
Primal Carnage is a multiplayer First Person Shooter where players must work as a team to complete game mode dependant objectives.
Total number of levels: 5 Capture the point / 4 Survival modes
Playable characters: 5 Humans / 5 Dinosaurs
Single player gameplay
Multiplayer game modes
Unigine engine MODSDK + Primal Carnage SDK for mods
Custom content
and much more…

“More game modes, maps, information coming soon and is subject to change during development”

Much more…

Unigine Corp the developers of the Unigine game engine, also posted an announcement :

“Tomsk, Russia – February 5, 2010 Unigine Corp. announces the licensing of its top-notch Unigine™ engine to Lukewarm Media, an independent game developer. The first Unigine-based project by Lukewarm Media (“Primal Carnage” action shooter) is currently close to the end of pre-production stage.

Primal Carnage

Primal Carnage is a co-operative multiplayer action shooter combining fast paced action with stunning visuals and immersive environment of dangerous and savage jungles.
The game is set on an abandoned military controlled island where an experiment gone awry unleashing colossal dinosaurs out of control. A team of tough mercenaries have been dispatched to prove to be indigestible and contain the threat.
A player can choose any of the opposing forces: selecting human side brings the first-person experience, while dinosaurs are controlled from a third-person perspective. With each faction containing unique abilities and each mission having various objectives, Primal Carnage will offer gamers a balanced and highly competitive gameplay experience.

What makes the game unique?

* Primal Carnage is one of the few games based around Dinosaurs (ever wanted to play as a T-Rex?)
* Team focused online gameplay with 5 human and 5 dinosaur playable characters
* Several game modes: Survival (4 variations), Capture The Point, single player storyline
* Arcade style fun that’s simple and easy to pick up and play at any time
* Long term support with DLC
* Mods SDK, custom content support

Primal Carnage is planned for release for the Windows and Linux operating systems in Q4 2010. More info is available on the official website of the game: www.primalcarnage.com ”

“Lukewarm Media is a rare combination of daring talent, passion and experience in game development industry. Being built in less than 2 months, the Unigine-based demo of Primal Carnage has really impressed me. When powered by such a productive team, the game has very good chances to gain significant success. Along with providing our middleware solutions to large established companies, our company has also granted support for a lot of independent companies. Independent development is quite a rocky road, so we will make our best from the technical side, thus helping this willing and audacious team to release their feature-rich game”. – Denis Shergin, CEO of Unigine Corp.

Unigine Engine
Unigine™ engine provides photorealistic 3D render (it works with DirectX 9 / DirectX 10 / DirectX 11 / OpenGL), powerful physics module, object-oriented scripting system with a very rich library (more than 3000 methods out-of-the box), full-featured GUI module, sound subsystem, and a set of flexible tools. Efficient and well-architected framework supporting multi-core systems makes Unigine a highly scalable solution, on which multi-platform games with different hardware requirements can be based.
Currently both the engine and the toolset are available for Windows and Linux platforms. This feature-rich middleware is successfully used in various VR projects as well as in modern games of different genres. Unigine is also the technology base for the first ever and well anticipated DirectX 11 benchmark “Heaven”.

“Working with the Unigine engine has been an inspirational yet fantastic experience. Lukewarm Media feels privileged to work with a support team as dedicated and motivated as the Unigine team. With Unigine’s top-end visual rendering system and support they offer their clients, it’s no question that Unigine will be a top choice for many developers in the coming years. The Unigine engine, with its quick-to-learn toolset, has helped Lukewarm Media bring its ideas to reality. There are a number of other exciting aspects to using the Unigine engine including (but not limited to) its support for DirectX 11, and being able to include the Unigine toolset and SDK for development of custom content and mods. This is a mutually beneficial partnership as it should allow both the Unigine and Primal Carnage communities to flourish. Overall, Unigine is an engine that without doubt has the amount of power needed to get a dinosaur moving!” – Ashton Andersen, Producer – Lukewarm Media

About Lukewarm Media
Lukewarm Media is a newly established independent multimedia design studio. The team has a highly passionate, dedicated and gifted group of artists, programmers and developers who share in Lukewarm Media’s common goal of making high-quality, immersive games that bring gamers to the edge of their seats. The studio has grown exponentially in size since it was founded and with its ever-growing roster of up-and-coming talent, will look to ride the wave with the next generation of game developers in this exciting and always expanding industry.

About Unigine Corp.
Unigine Corp. is an international company focused on top-notch real-time 3D solutions. The development studio is located in Tomsk, Russia. Main activity of Unigine Corp. is development of Unigine™, a cross-platform engine for virtual 3D worlds. Since the project start in 2004, it attracts attention of different companies and groups of independent developers, because Unigine is always on the cutting edge of real-time 3D visualization and physics simulation technologies.
Unigine Corp. is a registered developer of Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. (previously ATI Technologies Inc.), NVIDIA Corporation and Creative Labs Inc. Being a registered developer, the company works closely with hardware vendors in order to provide the best level of performance and stability of its products. The company also has a license to develop tools and middleware for PLAYSTATION®3 platform.

Primal Carnage
unigine announcement
Luke Warm Media